i thought mike had a thesis to do with truth and falsehood (it may still be that, but cathy is just an example...) because i was looking for stuff to back up my thesis (cal's catharsis) and i ran across a lot on truth and believing vs. knowing... if anyone needs stuff like that...
in mike/carps/my version (penguin classics):
p. 447 Lee says "you may dislike me for knowing the truth" - that page also has bunches about not blaming the present on the past... lee trusting in cal...
p. 448 "Cal didn't hate the lie but the necessity for telling it. Cal lied for reasons of profit of one kind or another. To be driven to a lie seemed shameful to him" after adam lied about the scar.
p. 450 "It is one of the triumphs of the human that he can know a thing and still not believe it" very interresting - but i wouldn't consider that a triumph, but a weakness.
something i found on cathy:
p. 462 - 463 she likes taking people off-guard and taking control of every situation. "they thought they were so smart....they looked at me and thought they knew me. and i fooled them. i fooled every one of them..... he tried to tie me down... ....but nobody can hold me..... nobody can trap me...." then when cal asks her if she missed anything as a kid, she changes the subject, "what am i doing, talking to kids?" showing she's intimidated.
just some stuff to think about.
so think about it, even if it's not in your thesis.
oh, and if you don't have a broken arm, write for the post.
thanks.
peter.
remember GOD.
Saturday, March 17, 2007
Friday, March 16, 2007
A lil' info on Cathy =)
Since I got inspired by El Sniper's post... Here's a lil' sumthin' sumthin' for all, about Cathy, according to Steinbeck...
"When I said Cathy was a monster it seemed to me that it was so. Now I have bent close with a glass over the small print of her and reread her footnotes, and I wonder if it was true. The trouble is that since we cannot know what she wanted, we will never know whether or not she got it. If rather than running toward something, she ran away from something, we can't know whether she escaped. Who knows but that she tried to tell someone or everyone what she was like and could not, for lack of common language. Her life may have been her language, formal, developed, indecipherable. It is easy to say she was bad, but there is little meaning unless we know why."
And adding on to what Tim said about the regret/pain she might feel when she thinks of Aron... she did eventually kill herself... And adding on to what Steinbeck said up there, we mustn't forget the part of the book where Cathy mentions herself to be Alice's (from Alice in Wonderland) friend.
As you can all see, Steinbeck speaks of Cathy como se ela fosse a true person, because he himself doesn't seem to able to decipher her completely either... which makes Cathy's persona a truly significant symbol of the book. David Wyatt says that...
"Here is a woman who rapes herself, incinerates her parents, beds down with her brother-in-law, shoots her husband, and abandons her children. Eve and Tamar and Delilah and Jezebel are rolled into one. She is realized through her actions rather than her motivations."
Enjoy!
Bjosss!
Tiffany<33*
P.s.: Those who'd like to use that quotes up there, or at least parts of them, should look for me and I'll give you the exact reference so you can "works-cite" it.
"When I said Cathy was a monster it seemed to me that it was so. Now I have bent close with a glass over the small print of her and reread her footnotes, and I wonder if it was true. The trouble is that since we cannot know what she wanted, we will never know whether or not she got it. If rather than running toward something, she ran away from something, we can't know whether she escaped. Who knows but that she tried to tell someone or everyone what she was like and could not, for lack of common language. Her life may have been her language, formal, developed, indecipherable. It is easy to say she was bad, but there is little meaning unless we know why."
And adding on to what Tim said about the regret/pain she might feel when she thinks of Aron... she did eventually kill herself... And adding on to what Steinbeck said up there, we mustn't forget the part of the book where Cathy mentions herself to be Alice's (from Alice in Wonderland) friend.
As you can all see, Steinbeck speaks of Cathy como se ela fosse a true person, because he himself doesn't seem to able to decipher her completely either... which makes Cathy's persona a truly significant symbol of the book. David Wyatt says that...
"Here is a woman who rapes herself, incinerates her parents, beds down with her brother-in-law, shoots her husband, and abandons her children. Eve and Tamar and Delilah and Jezebel are rolled into one. She is realized through her actions rather than her motivations."
Enjoy!
Bjosss!
Tiffany<33*
P.s.: Those who'd like to use that quotes up there, or at least parts of them, should look for me and I'll give you the exact reference so you can "works-cite" it.
Wednesday, March 14, 2007
Does Good Exist In Cathy?
okay guys,
so i've been hearing bits and pieces of discussions about Cathy, that mysterious half-beast half-human character in East of Eden. What i want to know is... does good exist in her? Sorry Austin i know you haven't finished the book.......so finish QUICKLY cuz i really want to know what u think about this, and you really can't answer that question till the end of the book. She really was a mystery to me thoughout the entire book. I kept thinking, "does she have no conscience? why is she doing all of these horrible things"? Then the whole thing comes up about Steinback describing her as a beast and not human at all. That's what the posts have been about lately. ne-ways, just some thoughts, give me your opinions. ill talk to u all later!- Michael J. Roome #7
so i've been hearing bits and pieces of discussions about Cathy, that mysterious half-beast half-human character in East of Eden. What i want to know is... does good exist in her? Sorry Austin i know you haven't finished the book.......so finish QUICKLY cuz i really want to know what u think about this, and you really can't answer that question till the end of the book. She really was a mystery to me thoughout the entire book. I kept thinking, "does she have no conscience? why is she doing all of these horrible things"? Then the whole thing comes up about Steinback describing her as a beast and not human at all. That's what the posts have been about lately. ne-ways, just some thoughts, give me your opinions. ill talk to u all later!- Michael J. Roome #7
MUSE
GREAT NEWS!!! The library (thank you Mrs. Jelliffe!) has signed the library up for trial access to Project Muse which gives incredible access to endless scholarly journals. I have done some initial searching and found just a few which I will include here. (OBSERVATION: I will count all of these as journal sources instead of internet sources!!!)
“In an essay titled ‘Paradox and Dreams,’
John Steinbeck described the American dream as ‘our vague
yearnings toward what we wish we were and hope we may be:
wise, just, compassionate, and noble.’”
Steinbeck Today Steinbeck Studies - Volume 15, Number 2, Fall 2004, pp. 186-197 – Article
Rachel…this article may be of particular interest to you.
Daemmrich, IngridParadise and Storytelling: Interconnecting Gender, Motif, and Narrative Structure [Narrative - Volume 11, Number 2, May 2003, pp. 213-233 - Article
“In an essay titled ‘Paradox and Dreams,’
John Steinbeck described the American dream as ‘our vague
yearnings toward what we wish we were and hope we may be:
wise, just, compassionate, and noble.’”
Steinbeck Today Steinbeck Studies - Volume 15, Number 2, Fall 2004, pp. 186-197 – Article
Rachel…this article may be of particular interest to you.
Daemmrich, IngridParadise and Storytelling: Interconnecting Gender, Motif, and Narrative Structure [Narrative - Volume 11, Number 2, May 2003, pp. 213-233 - Article
TERM PAPER SOURCES!
ATTENTION ALL AP STUDENTS! Please list ALL of your term paper sources under the Comentários portion of this post! Not only the Graded sources... but ALL of them! :) HAVE FUN WRITING TERM PAPERRR!! YEEEEEEEEE-HAWWWWWWWW!!!!
Toodles!
Toodles!
Monday, March 12, 2007
Sunday, March 11, 2007
(angie is it charlottes web?? random guess)
so yeah i havent really done much work on my thesis and stuff yet.. i havent even finished reading the book.. hahahah sorry carps im just lazy/easily distracted. anyways to tie in the socratic circle with the book... or maybe its just apple pie and sushi.. but really it is a good combo.. well i think it is.. enough gluttonous thoughts. so east of eden and socratic circle. we talked about WHO WE ARE. Know thyself. anyways. doesnt it seem that all of the antigonists or "the bad guys" if u will seem to not have the who? sure they know a lot about what they are but who they are is completely beyond them. cathy seems to know who she is. seems to. in fact, all she knows is what she is. she is compared to an animal, a beast. she is calculating and manipulative yet, she has no true knowledge of her soul. she doesnt know who she is so she never can truly be happy. also another thing that appears a lot is the comparison of the antigonists with animals. cathy and charles were both compared to animals... dunno about any other comparisons.. perhaps those farther along in the book can help me out. anyways.. animals do not have souls. and the soul is the definition of the who which defines us. without a soul, man is just an empty shell like any other beast. that divine spark is what makes each and every one of us so special and unique. the protagonists all seem to share this divine spark. aron had it. abra had it. adam had it. heck even samuel had it abeit in excess. perhaps this is just random speculation but it seems like that to me.
another thing i noticed a lot in the book. direction matters.. east, eastward, west, and other such directions play a key part in the story. well thats kind of a nobrainer but oh well.. steinback is an awesome writer.
another thing i noticed a lot in the book. direction matters.. east, eastward, west, and other such directions play a key part in the story. well thats kind of a nobrainer but oh well.. steinback is an awesome writer.
well guys... im really depressed rite now... it seems no matter how hard i try... star wars keeps on taking precedence over east of eden... its not fair... i really wanna read it... every time i do, i dont wanna put it down... its just the act of starting to read it... so yeah... i'll add my thought of the week here... so tonite after the message at church, i was discussing the message w/ my discussion group and there was a very interesting question... the question was "if we believe the bible to be true, and we dont act on it, we dont actually believe the bible. comment." so i guess thats not really a question... but what i was thinking is that it's alot like math... if we accept a mathematical equation to be true in all situations to which it applies (in other words if we believe it to be true)... we will always use that equation in its applicable situations... we're not gonna just throw it aside and try to do something on our own... thats lunacy... but yeah... so thats how we should be regarding the bible... if we believe it to be true... that should show... because if it doesnt... we dont truly believe it...
austin
p.s. i know im not exactly the best person in the world to be saying this... but i do try... and anywayz... its not really me saying it... im just the messenger... peace...
austin
p.s. i know im not exactly the best person in the world to be saying this... but i do try... and anywayz... its not really me saying it... im just the messenger... peace...
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